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Christianity No Longer Cuts it For Me.

June 14, 2007 at 8:46 pm by mahud

Thanks to Kay for linking to this post. if you want to cut to the chase, this is My view of Christianity and why it no longer works for me

In my original about page I crammed what I believed into these sentances:

All living things were created to exist in complete harmony with God in Eternity, but this relationship was threatened, and the inevitable destruction of Creation was circumvented through God’s own selfless sacrifice, and a reordered temporal universe sprang into existence. All life exists on these two levels of reality; both within time and beyond time.

Kay over at Songs of Unforgetting, asked me to explain where I was coming from with these beliefs, and asked me a few questions:

Wow. That is an intriguing few sentences. I’d love for you to explain your thinking a bit.

When you say “all living things were created to exist in complete harmony with God in Eternity …” What do you mean by that? Are you thinking of a “theosis” sort of state, or what?

When you say “this relationship was threatened …” Who or what threatened it?

And when you say “inevitable destruction of Creation…” Why was it inevitable and who or what could destroy it?

And when you say “circumvented through God’s own selfless sacrifice…” What do you have in mind?

Sorry for so many questions, but your words caused a bit of an epiphany and I’m curious as to whether we are thinking the same way.
kay

As I had never really put into words before why I believed to the stuff I did it was quite a challange, but It helped me to clarify it all in my mind. This was my response:

OK, here goes… :D

I believe that the universe exists at both an eternal level of reality (or heaven), where creation is in complete harmony with God, and a temporal (time-bound) level of reality, where we exist in an imbalanced relationship with God.

heaven exists outside the restraints of this time-bound reality, and everything that exists here and now, also exists in eternity, so when I die, rather than ‘go’ to heaven, my consciousness will become aware that heaven is where I already am.

I first began to think this way after contemplating a passage in Paul’s letter to the Ephesians, where he states that; “God raised up with Christ and seated with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus (2:6).” To me this implied that the chosen were already there in heaven in Christ. I still believe this with the exception that I now believe in universal salvation.

Because eternity exists outside of time, we were also there before this universe came into existence, and that the beginning and the end of this temporal time-bound reality is completely transcended by eternity. So, in a way you could say that I believe in pre-existence, except there is no real before or after. Before and after are unified and transcended in heaven. How, exactly we ‘live, move, start, stop, etc’ in a reality that operates outside of time, is impossible to comprehend, but I guess that in some way, the rules of time, are something like ‘reflections’ of eternal rules.

I’ve been trying to think of what I mean by living in ‘harmony with god’ and I guess the simple way of putting it is that ‘living in harmony with God’ is to love God, yourself, and fellow beings with all your whole being. So, love is foundational to our existence and free will and with that in place we can live as we are meant to live.

When I say that this relationship was threatened in eternity I mean that we ’stopped’, to whatever degree, to love completely, and so stepped outside the sacred circle of a perfect heavenly relationship, which cuts us off from our life-source, which is found only in God. As a consequence God’s life-giving presence becomes a destructive presence with metaphorical bolts of lightning, peals of thunder, and earthquakes on an infinite scale. This is my perception of heaven and hell. Hell is not a place of torment, rather it is everlasting presence of God, beyond the boundaries of a harmonious relationship.

In Genesis, the garden of Eden is a mythical representation of our eternal harmonious relationship with God, and eating the forbidden fruit, again represents mythologically, us stepping outside the sacred circle of a perfect heavenly relationship. however, instead of eating of the fruit and becoming exposed to the destructive presence of God, something happened to counteract our destruction. I believe that the time-bound temporal came into existence, and it is through this second reality that our eternal relationship is simultaneously broken and restored.

At this point arises a paradox. To restore the union between God and creation, there needs to be a degree of connection between the two, but even the slightest imbalance in the relationship makes this impossible, not to mention that we should be annihilated. So, God enters into creation and places himself in our paradoxical position, by exposing himself to his own infinite presence. On the time-bound level he experiences death, but on an eternal level, is indestructible. It is also through God’s incarnate role within the time-bound creation, that the temporal creation came into existence.

In essence, the temporal universe came into existence and is continually sustained through god’s sacrifice at an eternal level outside the boundaries of time, while also occurring within time itself. Our death, becomes God’s death and God’s life becomes our life, both death and life are bound up in the destruction and creation of the universe, the beginning and end of all things, transcending into eternity. I first began thinking about God’s sacrifice as the event that created the universe after reading in Revelation that, Jesus was “the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world (13:8).”

Another way of putting it in Christian terms, is that although Jesus is “the light of the world”, whose entrance into the world gives life and light to all, that light, through Jesus, also existed at the beginning of time.

Putting it mythologically, rather than a whirling sword of fire (symbolic of God’s destructive presence) preventing access to the Tree of Life, streams of water flow from within the gates of eden permeating the whole of the cosmos, which is the life giving presence of God.

I began viewing the universe and our relationship with God in this way while I still believed the Bible was wholly the Word of God. As I began to study mythology, I again saw the same story of a cosmic re-creation and divine re-unity through the sacrifice of a god who dies and rises again. It’s seems to me that its a pretty old story, embedded in many different mythologies, and whether their is any truth to it all or not, It seems like God has revealed himself to me through it all. I guess I’ll have to wait until I die to discover if any of it is true. :D

My view of Christianity

Recently, however, I’ve been questioning my Christian beliefs, as well as the pagan aspects, I believe, helped formulate the Christian myth of Christ’s death and resurrection.

As a Spiritual Teacher, I think Jesus was a man of his time, who was of prime importance to the needs of the society and times in which he occupied, but in the global society of today, his message and teachings no longer have the same import. And the Church injunction to be Christ’s witnesses over the face of the earth, and create a Global Christianity, is no longer (if ever) acceptable, in our multi faith world. Other religions can be just as life transforming as Christianity.

It is my belief that early Christianity and Jesus himself taught sexual equality, but were unwilling to let go of the old patriarchal myths and traditions, that gave the Church its authority as a new expression of faith, rooted in the Old Testament. And so, even today, woman are treated as second class Christians, who are within Christian traditions accepting the Bible as God’s word.

Even the mythos of Christ has an inherent sexual inequality inherited by an pagan patriarchal view of reality (I hope to blog about this soon).

I do not regret my short time as a Christian. It has blessed me with so much. I’m a much more loving and caring person than I once was. I’ve been set free from a lot of crap, but now It’s definitely time for me to take a new path. I’m still in need of some self transformation, but Christianity no longer cuts it for me.

I’ve tried to understand Jesus is a more liberal and mythological way, and if Christianity is gonna survive, I think this is the way ahead. But personally I think that Jesus vision was a Jewish one, who believed the Mosaic religion of his forefathers to be the only way ahead for all mankind.

« Symbolism of the Revolving Cosmos | Solar Beasts »


8 Comments (Have your say)

  1. kay

    Comment on June 14, 2007 at 9:33 pm

    But personally I think that Jesus vision was a Jewish one, who believed the Mosaic religion of his forefathers to be the only way ahead for all mankind.

    This was the clincher for me too.

    I’d just get comfortable with Jesus as mythological victim, or sage, or mystic and then I’d come across something by Rob Bell or (particularly) NT Wright that would make me realize just how Jewish Jesus was and that my interpreting him the way I was, was dishonest.


  2. Between Old and New Moons » Christianity No Longer Cuts it For Me | Songs of Unforgetting

    Pingback on June 14, 2007 at 9:37 pm

    […] Mythology Blog: Between Old and New Moons » Christianity No Longer Cuts it For Me. […]


  3. Ali

    Comment on June 14, 2007 at 11:56 pm

    Oddly enough, it was learning about the “Jewishness” of the historical person of Jesus and understanding the complex political and social contexts of the time to which he was responding that gave me a greater appreciation for him. Even though I agree that Jesus’ vision was largely “Jewish” in nature, I think it was in some ways very strongly contrasted to the Judaic vision most commonly held at the time, which put the Temple and the laws of praxis at the heart of spiritual worship. That Jesus seemed to conceive of a religion that was applicable to “all mankind” is a direct departure from the Jewish concept of a “Chosen People,” and his emphasis on the “Law of Love” as overriding laws of social behavior and organization puts this idea of a “universal religion” into a much more tolerant light, I think. In a political situation of increasing tensions between two opposing religious groups (which eventually led to the Great Jewish Revolt in 66 C.E.), I think Jesus’ vision was not so much that “only one religion is the right one, for everyone,” but that there was an aspect to his own religious tradition that held the possibility of resolving these tensions without resorting to violent political wars, and that he sought to convince his own people to seek this more tolerant and loving way without departing from his forefather’s faith. (Seeking out Gentiles to convert was an after-thought of his followers, I think, once the community had begun to thrive and when, after the Temple’s destruction in 70 C.E., the Jewish people themselves for forced into Diaspora.)

    I think the example of remaining committed to one’s personal faith while recognizing the possibility of tolerance and love for others is all the more relevant today, when we see numerous us-versus-them ideologies brandishing their doctrinal swords at one another. This is not to say that all the other theologies and doctrines that Christianity has tacked on since then remain forever relevant or acceptable. I’m more just surprised that the “Jewishness” was the deciding factor. That’s all. :)

    (Kay, I haven’t read the two writers you mention, but a quick jaunt over to Wikipedia informs me that they’re both, officially or unofficially, associated with the Protestant, evangelical Emergent Church movement (a subcategory of a subcategory of a subcategory of Christianity as a whole), and I wonder if that might have something to do with how they portray their conception of Jesus-the-historical-person and his Jewishness. Is it “dishonest” to interact with a deity on a personal level, even if one’s experiences do not match up with the limited historical evidence or the public doctrines of certain sects of the religion based on that deity? I’ve had visions of Jesus in which he presented himself as an artistic, feminine, politically-angsty bisexual–is this dishonest of me? In the 12th century, St. Bernard of Clairvaux was writing erotic-mystical texts about the Three Kisses of Christ… was he being dishonest? Even if there was no real conception in his time of “factual history” of the kind modern scholarship makes possible? Are Christians, too, allowed their “personal relationships” with a manifesting deity to hold as much weight as their church’s doctrines? What do we count as “dishonest”? Is there a place for this kind of “dishonesty” in Paganism, and if so, how do Pagans avoid it? …Heh, now I’m asking too many questions. ::blush:: :)


  4. AgnosticAtheist

    Comment on June 15, 2007 at 4:07 am

    I’ve tried to understand Jesus is a more liberal and mythological way, and if Christianity is gonna survive, I think this is the way ahead. But personally I think that Jesus vision was a Jewish one, who believed the Mosaic religion of his forefathers to be the only way ahead for all mankind.

    This is probably true but he did do things that were very much against the Mosaic law and seem to point people more to the matters of the heart vs. following the law.

    aA


  5. kay

    Comment on June 15, 2007 at 12:33 pm

    Ali,

    Thanks for your reply.

    When I said that I felt I was being dishonest I meant that I felt I was lying to myself.

    If a person experiences Jesus in the ways you mentioned and doesn’t have any cognitive dissonance regarding what they experience and what they read and the way Christendom is as a whole, I think that’s great.

    For me though, I was trying to be Christian because I wanted to be Christian (because of my family).


  6. mahud

    Comment on June 15, 2007 at 3:35 pm

    Hi, Ali. What you say really resonates with me, although I’m not sure how exactly. Perhaps it is because the divine Jesus is the way ahead for me (and I’m just taking a temporal spiritual detour), or maybe it’s because the light of God really shines through Jesus, as a man, much like Gandhi, who also evokes a similar emotional response when I watch the movie :)

    One of my problems concerns the Jewish scriptures, and how Jesus himself viewed them. He seemed to believe that they were faultless, pretty much in the same way as the majority of Christians (and followers of other religions), until recent times, have viewed their most sacred texts. Rather than being fixed in stone and as timeless as the universe itself, we are confident that from obscure beginnings, all religions develop and are subject to adaption.

    While it is unreasonable to expect Jesus and his early followers to be religious historians, I find myself at a loss as to how I’m supposed to view spirituality as a universal and diverse phenomenon, from within the confines of an authoritative tradition (’Jewish’ or otherwise), and even though Jesus, who interpreted the Mosaic teaching through a lens of compassion that eventually extended outwards embracing the whole of broken humanity, there is no radical departure (or the slightest hint) to embrace the spiritual practices of other cultures.

    like you said, Jesus was (mostly) working towards healing his own people, by challenging the religious mentality current at that time, and reintegrating the ritually unclean back into the spiritual temple of God. Jesus’ priority was not the facts behind the claims of his religion, but the truth that his tradition embodied, which transcends tradition. So in that sense I see a kind of religious plurality, but I still feel left in the dark, regarding the divinity of Jesus, which for me, is the decisive factor, if I’m to be a follower.

    Unfortunately, I’m unable to discern what is real and what is myth regarding Jesus’ death, resurrection, and divine status. Who Jesus was and is, is completely bound up in his native tradition, leaving little room for me to understand Jesus in light of other more mythical traditions of ‘dying and rising gods’, and unfortunately I don’t have the means to decipher what history has left us with, and no way of recovering what history has forever lost.


  7. mahud

    Comment on June 15, 2007 at 3:54 pm

    Hi, aA :D

    It’s been a while since I’ve read the Bible, but I’m not aware of Jesus opposing the Law in a major way, or if he actually opposed it at all?

    I know he was accused of breaking the Sabbath, although whether he actually broke it or not, is a matter of interpretation, I think. I’m sure in his own mind he wasn’t doing anything wrong.

    But yeah, I agree he did “seem to point people more to the matters of the heart vs. following the law.”


  8. mahud

    Comment on June 15, 2007 at 6:44 pm

    Kay, I’ve never read Rob Bell, and I’ve never really felt at home in the emergent thing, even though I havent bother with it much.

    The only book I’ve read by NT Wright was called What St Paul Really Said, quite a number of years ago now, which I ended up giving to my dad. I often give books away, and always regret it later :D

    I’m happy that you’ve finally been able to let go of Christianity, Kay. And I hope it will lead to a deeper appreciation for the things of this world, and some insight into the reality/realities beyond.


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