Cernunnos’ Path: Mythology and Paganism Blog

Mythology and Paganism

« Dionysus and Jesus and the Simultaneous Cosmic Destruction-Creation | Experiencing the Presence of the Gods? »

Effortless Spirituality?

16 Comments | October 22, 2007 at 10:18 am by mahud
Filed under Paganism, Sprituality, Christianity

I’m spiritually inept.

Part of my problem is unbelief. This has a lot to do with why I ceased living as a Christian. To be precise, my prayer life ceased. For intermittent periods of time over 10 years, I would pray. I would repeatedly pray for myself and others, but nothing in my life appeared to be directly effected by my prayers. Whether I prayed or didn’t pray my life still had its ups and downs. Good things would come into my life if I asked for them or not, and bad things would come and go, regardless of my prayers. When I prayed It never felt as if God was listening to me. I guess what I’m saying is that there was no relationship. It was always one way traffic.

Surely God should talk back to me, directly I mean, not indirectly by planting and removing obstacles along the pointless (so it seems sometimes) path that is my life. Why does God have to be so indirect? It’s like, my girlfriend only telling me she loved me while I’m asleep, or only revealing her love towards while I’m out of the room. She loves me, but how would I know it? It wouldn’t be much of a relationship, and yet this is how God seems to go about loving me. How do you maintain a relationship with someone who never shows up in person?

So, I guess this is my big problem. My perception of who God is is all screwed up. God isn’t a person. If God was a living thinking listening talking being then surely God would tell me so directly. Face to face. It would cut out a lot of crap. I would actually start putting in some effort to get to know God, rather than frustratingly waste my time and energy chasing after an imaginary ghost.

Anyway, I thought I had given up on being a Christian? Well, this is true, but the reason I turned to God in the first place was because my life was (and still is) screwed up and I’m unable to straighten it all out by myself. I wish I could just reach deep down inside myself, and turn myself inside out (kind of like a starfish) and pull out the person I want to be. But I don’t know how to do that. I don’t know where to begin. I guess I need a God, of some description, out there, in there, somewhere, willing to lend a helping hand.

There seems to be an endless number of spiritual alternatives, but where am I supposed to start, and how do I know they are going to be any more successful, than my previous attempts of divine connection? OK, now I’m starting to feel really anxious…

And why does a spiritual life require so much effort? I’m sure I could throw myself into some religious discipline of some description, twist and beat and bend my mind and body out of shape until I finally start hearing voices, seeing little green men, or transcendentally journey to other planets, and so on. If I screw myself up long and hard enough perhaps anything is possible?

« Dionysus and Jesus and the Simultaneous Cosmic Destruction-Creation | Experiencing the Presence of the Gods? »

16 Comments (Have your say)

  1. Jeff Lilly

    Comment on October 22, 2007 at 11:32 am

    Mahud, may I ask: did you try my “Meet a Guide” meditation, and if so, what was your experience with it? This kind of meditation was the key for me to get past the roadblock you’re describing. Using it requires no kind of supernormal beliefs at all: you’re perfectly free to believe that the people or guides you meet in the meditation are simply aspects of your subconscious; and meditating in this way requires no supernormal power, just visualization practice. And the advice you get will help “fix up your life”.

  2. kay

    Comment on October 22, 2007 at 12:56 pm

    Mahud,

    I wish I had answers for you. I struggle with the same questions myself even though I believe it is important for God to keep an “epistemological distance” from free will creatures.

    All the philosophical gobbledy gook doesn’t help, though, when all you want is to talk to God.

    What appeals to me about Christianity is that very thing that so many Christian liberals reject: That God took on human form and lived a human life.

    Anyway, feel free to email me any time if you need to chat with someone who has bounced between paganism and Christianity more times than she can count. :)

  3. mahud

    Comment on October 22, 2007 at 7:54 pm

    Thanks for responding, Jeff. I have tried your mediation a number of times, my girlfriend and I also did it together, and she met her guide. Shanny is definitely more spiritually connected than I am.

    I believe I mentioned that I had trouble focusing on everything at once, and you said something along the lines to not to worry about that.

    The few times I actually made it into the garden and sit down on the bench awaiting the guide, someone did show up (although I felt I was just making him up, rather than anything or coming from my subconscious). It was a man who looked similar to the guy from the movie Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, who would lure children with the promise of sweeties and then lock the up in a cage.

    Despite his appearance, my guy was friendly. We could chat or rather, I would chat for both of us, but nothing really helped me.

    Next month, I intend to get back into mediating and I’ll see if I can make any progress with the visualization then.

    Again, I’m feeling that I’m not cut out for this kind of thing, though, which is sad, because when I discovered you meditations, I was really excited that it would work for me.

  4. Morninghawk Apollo

    Comment on October 22, 2007 at 8:20 pm

    This is a very difficult question. Unfortunately, I don’t have a real answer either. I went through the same thing with religion, both with Christianity and later with Paganism.

    I was finally able to resolve it for myself after a powerful invocation ritual, where Hermes took over our High Priest’s body and spoke. I had seen invocations before but was not sure if they were really the words from a God or not. What made it different that time, though, was that Hermes talked to me about something in my childhood that I never spoke to anyone about. He spoke in such detail that I knew it wasn’t my mind simply connecting the dots (a technique many charlatans use).

    Will something like that help you, or anyone else, in realizing a relationship to a God or Gods? I don’t know. I’ve learned over the years that such experiences are different for everyone.

    Just as one’s relationship to the Divine is different for everyone.

    Good luck in your search.

  5. mahud

    Comment on October 22, 2007 at 8:28 pm

    Thanks, Kay.

    I actually think that if God personally showed up, my freewill wouldn’t be compromised (perhaps I need a bit more insight on that one). The theological reasoning behind why God doesn’t reveal himself, leaves me thinking that the most obvious explanation is that there is no God.

    I think that believing in the divinity of Jesus is the most important part of Christianity :) Without that I can’t really see the point of being Christian.

  6. Jeff Lilly | Druid Journal Word of the Day

    Comment on October 22, 2007 at 8:45 pm

    Mahud,

    The feeling that you yourself are just “making up” the conversations you’re having is not an uncommon one. Try this: instead of trying to engage in conversation, see if you can get your guide to simply hand you objects. Then see what appears…

    It is very important to step out of the way here and simply let images come. What you’re doing is very simply equivalent to “letting ideas come” or allowing things to “pop” into your head, or brainstorming. Can you do that?

    You may wonder whether your guide is really telling you something, or if you’re just coming up with random stuff. But remember that even if it’s “just random stuff”, it’s coming from your subconscious, and it’s a meaningful symbol! Take the symbol, step away from it, and analyze it like you would any dream image or mythological motif.

  7. mahud

    Comment on October 22, 2007 at 8:48 pm

    hi, Morninghawk Apollo :)

    I think an experience, such as you describe would be beneficial, although I can’t help wondering why Hermes couldn’t of shown up in person, rather than relaying the message through someone else?

  8. mahud

    Comment on October 22, 2007 at 8:55 pm

    Jeff, on one occation I was given a box. I’ve forgotten what was inside it now, I think it was a magical ball or something. When I returned to the campfire, I threw it in, as I felt that was what I was supposed to do with it.

    My last meditation (I had forgotton about this one) a native American gave me a red and green bracelet. Although I’m not sure what that meant either.

    Anyway, the next time I follow your meditation, I see if my guide has any more gifts to offer me.

  9. Jeff Lilly | Druid Journal Word of the Day

    Comment on October 22, 2007 at 9:48 pm

    Mahud, one more thing! You can also do walking meditations, in which you walk out alone into a park or other remote area. Relax and get into a semi-meditative state while you walk. Then see what features of the natural world catch your eye — a branch, an odd rock, a colorful leaf. (You can choose to believe that your spirit guides are directing your attention, or your subconscious mind is — either way. :-) ) Take these natural features as ‘mythological features’ to be analyzed just like objects in a meditation. (This way you can be CERTAIN you’re not “making them up”!)

    Considering the native american and the bracelet: What was the pattern of red and green on the bracelet? What significance have these colors had in your life? When you think of “red”, what comes to mind?… A bracelet might mean something to do with your hands, i.e. an activity you’re engaged in, or could be engaged in, creative activity perhaps.

  10. R.E.

    Comment on October 23, 2007 at 4:00 am

    Hi, Mahud!

    I have the toughest time asking for help. And, usually, when I’m struggling the most, the Lady or Epona will swack me over the head and say, “Ask for help, you silly!”

    I remember your description of your first ritual — on a blanket. Why not set out that blanket, create a sacred space, and ask a Diety you are comfortable with for help with believing. Ask out loud — explain your struggles and doubts. Then listen.

  11. mahud

    Comment on October 24, 2007 at 6:45 am

    Thanks for the advice, Jeff.

    I’ve thought about the bracelet and its possible meaning. It is somehow familiar to me, bu I don’t know why. I’ll have to keep my eye out for one :)

    Hi, R.E. I think voicing your feelings is a good thing, if only to let off some steam. It can help release a lot of internal pressure for me, and help me move on. Thanks for reminding me of that :)

  12. Zachary Forrest y Salazar

    Comment on October 25, 2007 at 2:32 pm

    I guess I should start by saying that I struggle with the same questions. I get upset with God for never speaking in an undeniable voice separate from the one inside my head or inside my heart. That this world continues to turn and function (to both my joy and detriment) no matter how much I may object, plead or cry.

    The thing about Christianity is that there is huge crevice between faith and knowledge. And in the practice of Christianity, it is understood that one can only come to God by faith. Knowledge is not listed as a requirement and not promised until after death.

    It sucks, but it’s the path I’ve chosen. Nothing else makes sense to me.

  13. Morninghawk Apollo

    Comment on October 25, 2007 at 6:59 pm

    All religions have a huge crevice between faith and knowledge. It is one thing to know something in your head, but completely another to know it in your heart. To cross this Abyss is to be “born again.”

    Unfortunately, it is a difficult bridge for people. We are so focused in our mind instead of our heart in this culture. We also doubt everything, even ourselves, which adds to the difficulty.

    I am reading a book by the Roman senator and philosopher, Cicero, that talks about this very thing. It is called the Nature of the Gods and it discusses the differing viewpoints about what the Gods really are. There was much debate during that time about it. The arguments range from the Gods being human mental and imaginative constructs designed to maintain social order and state power to the Gods being separate and distinct beings who interact with humanity daily.

    It doesn’t really answer the question, but it is great for seeing what the differing viewpoints are. The funny thing is they haven’t changed much in the 2000 years since Cicero wrote.

  14. mahud

    Comment on October 27, 2007 at 9:50 am

    Hi, Zachary. Thanks for commenting. I enjoyed your post on Halloween :)

    in the practice of Christianity, it is understood that one can only come to God by faith. Knowledge is not listed as a requirement and not promised until after death.

    I believe knowledge precedes faith in Christianity. An elemental understanding of God’s nature and his relationship with humankind is intrinsic, before faith can be placed in him.

    This is a problem for me. I’m intensely aware of my own limited perceptions of the cosmos and the transcendent reality beyond. The problem is compounded taking into account that there are multitudes of other religions, each with their own cosmologies and views of the ultimate source of all things. How can a finite being honestly find the one true path?

    And even if we have some kind of spiritual awakening or an opening of the heart to the reality of the divine, can we truly point to the One True God as the source? or do we interpret these awakenings and divine encounters through lens of dogmatic knowledge, ignoring that other religious practitioners also have similar spiritually positive experiences.

    Unfortunately, it is a difficult bridge for people. We are so focused in our mind instead of our heart in this culture. We also doubt everything, even ourselves, which adds to the difficulty.

    Morninghawk, that’s my problem in a nutshell!

  15. Aquari

    Comment on November 24, 2007 at 6:42 am

    Mahud, you sound so much like me, even in the details of what you say. My heart goes out to you. It’s frustrating beyond words, isn’t it? And lonely.

    When you talk about wishing to see a god ‘in person’, what are you picturing? What counts as ‘present’ or ‘in person’ to you? A particularly sticky question when applied to gods, I should think, since they’re normally believed to be intangible, without physical form. How do you see someone with no body to be seen, what does ‘present’ mean with no body to be present? I’m not asking rhetorical questions, I’d really like to know myself! I envy, and sometimes resent, people who say, ‘I ‘believe’ in my gods like I ‘believe’ in the postman, they’re just /there/’ … I can’t understand them, and I’ve heard some profess not to understand the rest of us, but I envy them all the same.

    I’ve no business going around giving advice, but if anything is worth a try … I don’t ‘believe’ in Bach Flower Essences, in the sense that I can’t reconcile how they supposedly work with my understanding of the world. However, I’ve tried some on the ‘couldn’t hurt’ principle and got unexpectedly satisfying results. In light of some of the things you say, particularly about Lilly’s meditation (oh how much you sound like me!) … something tells me Cerato is the remedy for people like us. For those who doubt themselves, and so can’t trust their impressions and hesitate to make any decision, certain they’re going to get themselves even more lost … well, I’m going to try it anyway. I’d try just about anything, by now.

    Whatever happens, I wish you the best of luck, and the blessings of any gods who may or may not be present.

  16. mahud

    Comment on November 30, 2007 at 2:13 pm

    Hi, Aquari. I’m sorry about my terribly late response. Thanks for commenting :)

    When you talk about wishing to see a god ‘in person’, what are you picturing? What counts as ‘present’ or ‘in person’ to you? A particularly sticky question when applied to gods, I should think, since they’re normally believed to be intangible, without physical form. How do you see someone with no body to be seen, what does ‘present’ mean with no body to be present?

    I don’t really have any clear ideas of what the Gods look like. I guess the closest I can get is to imagine them as appearing as a kind of energy or spirit force that can cause ripples in the physical world. Or perhaps they might have the ability to assume a physical form. I’m not sure. If I were to have a satisfying encounter with a God I would need to feel a personality and presence assuring me that it is actually a living intelligent being.

    I don’t ‘believe’ in Bach Flower Essences, in the sense that I can’t reconcile how they supposedly work with my understanding of the world. However, I’ve tried some on the ‘couldn’t hurt’ principle and got unexpectedly satisfying results.

    I’ve never heard of Bach Flower Essences until you mentioned them. They don’t really fit into my world view either :D. Perhaps it doesn’t really matter if they are ‘real’ or not, if through using them you get satisfying results. I’ve recently been messing around with the I Ching, which has also produced satisfying results for me, but I’m not sure how far I’m willing to believe in it. What I like about the I Ching is that it predicts the future in a way that you can actively participate in. If something produces a positive result then it can’t be all that bad.

  1. smile
  2. happy
  3. sad
  4. wink
  5. url
  6. bquote
  7. bold
  8. acronym
  9. abbr
  10. cite
  11. em
  1. Recent Posts
  2. Comments
  3. Catagories
  4. Archives
  5. Blogroll

Cernunnos' Path © 2004-2010 | valid XHTML| valid CSS | Current Moon Phase | Moon Calendar